Interview: Prof. D-r Mileva – Gjurovska, Institute for Sociology, Faculty of Philosophy – Skopje

The female work force is not well organized by the syndicate 

In the focus of your interest as sociology of work force professor is the female work force, too. At the workshop organized by the Center for performing arts “Multimedia”, you presented your opinions about women and their participation in the world of economy. Where is female work force today within the economic system, both in the world and Macedonia? 
Almost throughout the whole human history women worked and were considered to be an important and necessary work force for survival. However, the work force they put was not recognized a lot by the society.

Due to the women’s nature, a lot of stereotypes were created that deprived the other parent of the biological and emotional relationship with the child and closed women in the sphere of private life, doing things that neither their husbands nor the society acknowledged as important. In the name of their nature women had to sustain the whole load of human reproduction, to bear existential problems that she exhaustingly tried to overcome, not getting any satisfaction from it.

This picture was significantly changed in the period of the industrial revolution when they were given an opportunity to become active in the sphere of the socially recognized and economically valorized work force. For capitalists it was very important to reduce work force costs. Therefore they opened factories’ doors to women and children and they were several times less paid than men. Women were treated the same as children and they did some unqualified jobs. Men did qualified things and they got higher salaries. Although these are inserts from the history, nowadays the condition of female work force in the domain of public sphere is not essentially changed. According to the data, in the EU member countries women earn less for 28% than their men colleagues on average. It is due to the fact that women mainly have jobs that are not well-paid. Analysts think that in every job position when a lot of women come, it is economically devalued. In the beginning it was the case with teachers and secretaries. They were respected and well-paid job positions, but later, when they became typically female, their status changed and the salaries were reduced. On the other hand, under the tradition’s influence, women themselves choose female jobs so that they can better coordinate their roles as mothers, wives and housewives with their professional roles. It shows that in spite of the fact that women have an easier access to all professions and jobs, the law on natural division of roles is noticeable even in the world of job positions. Thus, care, education, ready-to-wear clothing, hygiene etc are still typically female job positions as they are mainly performed by women. Men might perform them as well, but the problem is that they are not well-paid and there are not any opportunities for career building and they have poor reputation in the society.

 

What are the key points where it should be intervened in order to achieve an equal treatment of female work force and to overcome discrimination?
Nowadays the leading idea through which it is being tried to eliminate discrimination in all fields, including discrimination according to sex, is the idea for equal opportunities for everyone, i.e. equal opportunities for men and women. It means an equal access of men and women towards all educational institutions on all levels, equal opportunities to gain any occupation or job position, equal access to politics etc. The governments are recommended to affirm these principles that mainly rely on conventions for citizens’ rights and freedoms. The fight against discriminations is mainly in the field of legislation and it is of formal character. However, this equality in front of the laws does not give any certain guarantee that these rights will be respected and realized. International institutions, among which the EU ones, put pressure on governments to turn into laws the number of conventions, strategies and recommendations. In some fields, especially in the EU member countries, some significant contributions have been achieved. For example, in order to realize the principle of equal opportunities for employment of women, a law is necessary that shall guarantee the right of maternity leave, i.e. parent’s leave. However, it is not sufficient if there are not any other institutional preconditions that will coordinate the family and professional roles (favorable kindergartens, flexible working hours). What opportunities shall we talk about if the woman does not have anyone to entrust her child to, if kindergartens are half of her salary and are closed in the afternoon. Anyway, we cannot stay only on the plan of the idea for formal rights, although they are very significant.

 

Do women know their rights as employees, not only in the industry, but in other spheres, too?
In Macedonia, workers do not know their rights. A small number of international conventions have been translated into Macedonian. The female work force is not well organized by the syndicate, so there are not any institutions that will systematically work on the plan of affirmation of women rights and freedoms. Taking into consideration the respect of workers’ rights and freedoms, it looks as if we were at the beginning of the 19th century.

However, one of the most significant factors in the fight against rough discrimination of women is their employment. Employment does not only mean a salary that gives a feeling of independence and freedom in decisions, but also one of the most certain ways of participation in the society. However, women in Macedonia in the past system had employment opportunities, many of them earned enough, there were many favorable kindergartens, but it did not fight discrimination however.

It shows that employment and high salary are not enough. The rights and freedoms are also significant that need to be practiced systematically, but especially significant is overcoming the traditions where the husband feels himself a guest at his own house.

 

Are you pleased with the so far treatment of certain subjects related to women in the field of economy, education, culture, health?
The subject where the position of women is treated is almost new in the social sciences. In this domain the most numerous are the feministic studies that mainly treat the problems of women, i.e. female subordination. The scientific approach or the sociological approach that is applied here is different. Between men and women in the course of history many different relations of social character have been built. The integral approach is very important, i.e. concrete realization of social conditions that have not affected only the position of women, but the relations between both sexes. For example, religion, working tools, political organization and culture.

There is not a social community in which religion will proclaim equal opportunities for men and women and the culture or economic system will reduce them, and contrary, the economic and legal system to approve and the religion to reduce them. All things are mutually related. Each concrete environment has its own specifics and we cannot talk about a universal cure. It is necessary to be well familiar with the conditions in the environment.

In Macedonia there is a lack of literature for studying these issues. Last year for the first time at the postgraduate studies in the possibilities of the Institute for Sociology among the optional courses was the course titled “Sociology of relations between sexes”. Almost all students chose this course. It was noticed that students are really interested in this area. It seems that this problem, known as gender studies, becomes more popular. The grants that enable realization of projects contribute to it, too. But we will not exaggerate if we say that the interest is a kind of fashion. Studying this field, we have noticed that the literature in Macedonian language is really poor, and the translations made do not meet the scientific access. There is not a specialized institution that would give the wanted systematization of the plan of references, the plan of research and the plan of practical taking actions.

 

What do you think about the treatment of these issues by the civil society organizations?
There are many women civil society organizations, as well as their branches throughout Macedonia. They are different by their nature. In the media we can often see what some civil society organizations do. It seems that there is big partiality in their actions that is determined by the kind of grants they get for their activities. The activity stops when the grant stops. Some more serious presentations, in terms of organizing conferences, debates on certain topics, giving opinions about certain events, have not been noticed in the public.

It seems that women organizations still act in the limited area that the traditional society determined for them (competitions in cooking skills and other housewife’s skills).

For example, I have not heard a female organization to set the question about the position of female workers in the textile industry that work for very low salaries and in very difficult organizational conditions, to affirm publicly the principles for equal opportunities or to affirm the conventions for fight against discrimination.

 

What is missing for an efficient strategy to be made in this field?
We have to be aware that even the most perfect and the most detailed strategy will not give a quick result. There are a few important processes that can significantly change women’s position: economic activation of female population by all ethnic groups that live in here. For example, only 11% of Albanian women appear as capable for work at the labor market. It also refers to the Macedonian women whose activity is getting bigger (49%), however insufficient in comparison with the EU (61%).

Affirmation and practicing women social rights is missing, reduction of the objective discrimination, implementing measures for fight against subjective discrimination, i.e. creating conditions for equal opportunities in political actions, in performing significant and well-paid job positions, opportunities for constant and expert education. There is a lack of shared care for reproduction of new young members of the community, i.e. affirming functional parenting of both parents.